#more musings on dragon age

[3gremlins]

i saw a post about spirits being twisted against their purpose into demons and had another thought about why spite/lucanis work where other spirit bonds don't. since spite is determination twisted that would make it more unique than one of the more straightforward realms - i feel like spite might retain some amount of will even in demon form and want to stay more independent OUT OF SPITE. like the nature of that sort of "demon" would make it more likely to form a bond/not fully possess its host. like i'm not doing that b/c i know you want me to do it and therefore- so that would give them the unique opportunity to meet in the middle where other more binary spirits might not be able to. For example, justice and vengeance are both very strong, all consuming ideals that perpetually push you forward- whereas spite and determination make you stubborn/more likely to stop what you're doing.

idk just a passing thought i had about the nature of spirits/demons and why lucanis/spite work where anders/justice ultimately failed as far as we know. (i do wish/hope we get more investigation into the nature of spirits and hopefully it doesn't get collapsed into the resolution of veilguard with the evanuris and such. like there's more meaty weirdness w/the fade and demons beyond the ancient elf stuff. maybe they'll eventually also get into the forbidden ones lore if we ever get another da game in teh future. I was reading around the fandom wiki and there's been a forbidden one in every single dragon age game so maybe? plus the secret ending implies it a little. hard to say what's "we needed another thing to fight, here's this lore breadcrumb for world building" and what's "we for sure have a plan" tho)

[timethehobo]

Wonder who he’s watching.

[ansburg]

     I swear he was crying when we finally tackled him, but damned if I’ll hold that against him. It took three of us to drag him back to cover. I had to slap him back to his senses, to make him see that killing five or ten more ‘Spawn wouldn’t matter. The Wall was on us, and dying there wasn’t going to help anyone. I said if he wanted to do his family good, he’d get them safe.

— world of thedas, volume ii

[st-just]

Bioware games are an interesting sort of fanon-bait because each one is like 80 hours long and has plenty of time to establish its own personality and themes, and set in motion plot threads and worldbuilding notes to be explored in late games - with a couple exceptions, each even clearly and conscientiously lays out the tracks for a sequel to follow in its footsteps.

And then after five years of dev hell, a total changeover in creative teams, and project management dead set on chasing the latest shiny industry trend, the actual sequel that comes out will inevitably do a soft reset and do its very best to ignore as much of that setup as is physically possible.

[ambrosia-vinca]

As funny as Spite is when he's being a chaotic gremlin who wants to eat candles and is jealous of Curiosity's feet, I'd like to see his dangerous side being explored more, along with the dangers of possession.

Possession is a big deal. We see it in Anders, whose anger and past trauma twists Justice into Vengeance, and their emotions being intertwined creates an endless feedback loop of misery and obsession until Anders can't stop himself from doing something drastic, very similarly to Solas. They have different goals/ideals, but they have similar (near) unstoppable drive to fulfill their perceived purpose no matter what the people around them say, a purpose that sends them hurtling along a road paved with destruction. Anders at the end of DA2 is very similar to a pure spirit/demon in the sense that his purpose is pretty much all that he is, consumed with the need to liberate mages and avenge them against chantry and templar oppression (also a similar flavor to Mythal in a way. Benevolence (help people) -> Retribution (avenge people))

Spite as an emotion can have a positive effect for a person (succeeding/persevering out of spite), but it's not a positive emotion. Spite as a demon is a creature of pettiness/anger/resentment, a cousin or brother to Vengeance pretty much. Spite physically hurts Lucanis (only once that we actually see in the actual game and I would have liked it to be a more recurrent/tangible problem) when he doesn't get his way. He attacks Illario and would have killed him if he had his way. He doesn't process emotions as mortals do, so outside of anger/resentment etc, he doesn't really get genuine affection or love or any positive emotion that isn't motivated by hurting people and/or not doing what they want, because again, he's a being of raw emotion with a specific realm of purpose.

So what about Lucanis and Spite? Does them being intertwined change Lucanis' personality in any way? Enhance his anger? Make him more determined than he already is, but also less able to forgive? Does Spite change because of Lucanis in any way? Does it make his emotions or thought processes more complex? Is the particular way they were bound together, different from Anders' willing possession, make them more separate entities, considering Anders basically absorbed Justice until they were fused together? Does spending time outside of the Fade let Spite learn like it did for Cole, even if their situations were different, without changing his core nature?

The “learning” part is kind of alluded to in the hardened Lucanis path where he wants to find a way to part with Spite once he's done with his contract, and Rook can mention that Spite might have evolved because he's a demon who's “learned to work alongside people” (or something to that effect). I would have liked a bit more of that topic in both paths for Lucanis. Spite likes Rook when they're being vengeful or making dark jokes, because they're acting in a way that pleases his nature, and he does ends up trusting them/being fond of them in his own way. Is he also partly influenced by Lucanis' emotions and fondness for Rook (whether friendship or romance, without truly being able to feel or understand these emotions for himself)?

I feel like Lucanis' possession is simultaneously presented as a big deal but also doesn't end up having much of an effect in the grand scheme of things. Spite was introduced as a threat and treated as one in the scene with Illario, but he's written as a very lukewarm demon otherwise and he doesn't feel very dangerous at all. I would have liked more from him, more details, more possible negative consequences, more actual danger to Lucanis' wellbeing if Spite gets his way.

Is there a possibility in an alternate universe where Lucanis could have gone down a darker path similar to Anders', considering he wasn't in the best mental state when Rook gets him out of the Ossuary (an understatement)? Maybe if Rook lets Treviso get blighted? Could Lucanis' caring nature lose against Spite because of the despair and resentment he feels in that route? Spite would feed off his anger and also fan its flames, creating the same kind of endless negative loop that Anders was stuck in, until Lucanis was changed as a person. Angrier. Pettier with any perceived slights. More Vengeful even towards less deserving targets.

Again, we kind of get that in the sense that we can't choose what to do with Illario at the end of his quest but he just... gets imprisoned. (which is the choice I made in my first playthrough with unhardened Lucanis anyway because I just can't see in what world what Illario did would be forgivable with just a slap on the wrist. Maybe I'm also a demon of Spite, who knows)

It's a very lukewarm vengeance at best because in the canon hardened path, even if we get *told* Lucanis is more depressed and less trusting, he doesn't actually change much as a person and retains his love for his family and his caring nature, so it doesn't seem like Spite has influenced him in any way.

So yeah. Maybe in an AU. Or maybe I just like angst a lot, don't look at me I'm just bouncing ideas off the tumblr wall!

[perditus]

Spite (thank you @ofdraiocht for finding me that datamined info on spite) anyways headcanons

→ The main reason for Spite and Lucanis's unique affinity is because Spite has been with Lucanis for a lot longer than a year. Before the Ossuary, Spite was a Spirit of Passion that started following Lucanis around after his parents were killed and Catarina began training him. Lucanis's willpower and desire to survive is what drove the Passion to follow him around - and he kept doing so even into adulthood.

→ One of the few times Passion drifted away was during the Wigmaker job due to Ambrose Forfex's presence and the blood magic. He eventually drifted back to Lucanis after and just... continued following him. Never interfered, just watched.

→ When Lucanis was captured by Zara, Passion was also trapped and twisted into what eventually became... Spite. Because he had been following Lucanis for well over a decade, he was the demon chosen to be combined with Lucanis. And... it worked. Now he was a Demon instead of a Spirit though, twisted against his nature and lashing out at everyone and Lucanis as well.

→ Spite does remember being a Spirit eventually, when he and Lucanis start finding that middle ground and cooperating better. It's a part of why he starts becoming more docile, in theory he could change back into the spirit he was before. Theoretically. The main problem is the blood magic that traps him in Lucanis which is most likely preventing that...but his nature is able to shift into something a little more pleasant than pure Spite at the minimum.

→ If it had been just a random demon with no affiliation to Lucanis whatsoever, Lucanis most likely would have died or lost entirely to the demon.

[tkwritesdumbassassins]

What if Lucanis once had a preferred taste of coffee. And if Rook met him precanon and memorized it

But then after reuniting again, and after Rook makes it that way, that same coffee preference is too sweet. He prefers it black now and Rook, while disappointed, understands.

And that's how they make it now. But then over time something... changes.

Haha what if :)

[devotedlystrangewizard]

i hope theyll have special dialogue when introducing you to characters of your faction like if you play an antivan crow when you meet lucanis you can mention that you know him. it doesnt have to be super involved or anything i just want rook to not feel like they spawned fully formed at the start of the game

[girlmadeofclockwork]

I do find the, well maybe not historical revisionism, but perhaps profoundly misremembering and or just changes in tastes that has gone down when it comes to Zevran and dragon age: origins to be quite interesting, like now that he’s very openly being compared to the newest hotness of Astarion, people talk about him as if he is/was the most popular because people love broody elves (even though Zev is the farthest from broody in his demeanor, and which kinda go hand in hand with people comparing him to Fenris, which isn’t new mind mind you, but it was fucking rare I saw anyone make that comparison 9 years ago) but I was there mind you, I was there 8-9 years ago. I remember clearly Zevran being the least popular romance option in origins when it came to the fandom.

[3gremlins]

so i've seen a lot of (really good/thoughtful) critique about how the lords of fortune not stealing from everybody indiscriminately is weird and kind of sanitized and doesn't really make sense in-world, and i see you all, totally agree and think you have very good points but also

i kinda saw them having a Qunari History Artifact Specialist on staff as specifically an Isabela thing as in "last time i stole a random cultural object b/c it was shiny it was a huge pain in the ass actually and i'd like to not do that ever again"

like kind of an in joke with izzy/da2 meta nod more than anything (which fair, doesn't make sense canonically and is jarring in world but i really think it's just there as an isabela joke and not meant to be anything more. i know there's party banter with taash that tries to justify it more which i agree is extra silly-like they're pirates, they should do morally grey pirate things and it's not as fun if they're not a little morally questionable. but i like the idea that isabela specifically is like "okay we should maybe double check if anyone is going to care about this object and follow us through hell and high water just to get it back. there's no way im going to befriend a disaster bisexual willing to fight for me twice")

[timethehobo]

I can’t do those nice painted styles so I can only offer something more stylised. 🤲 An attempt on colours.

[pr4yerp0sition]

okay, going to knock out cause I'm slowly getting a cold so I'm going to be a brat about it. sorry for the lack of everything!!!! I made dinner then promptly fell asleep. i'll answer dms, discord things, and drafts later on. avoid the gross nasties everyone, till then.

[invinciblerodent]

I don't want to go off on someone else's post, but I just read one that reminded me of how I'll be really, really interested in just how much of a range the Inquisitor's emotions will be able to have in Veilguard regarding Solas, especially outside of a romantic context.

Like I've never done a complete Solas romance playthrough, but the dynamic with an Inquisitor who used to care for him as a friend? Is just so fascinating to me.

Because, well, my Ray obviously wasn't in a romantic relationship with him. They weren't even particularly close, as far as friendships go- Ray enjoyed much more the company of raucous, down to earth, boots on the ground kinds of people, like Bull, or Sera, and Blackwall, and he always placed more regard on Dorian's opinion on matters of magic (for obvious reasons): so he and Solas, they more or less just shared a warm, cordial, collegial relationship. They weren't really in a "ride or die, it's you and me against the world" kind of friendship, but, Solas was responsible for keeping an eye on the Anchor, and yes, that meant that their relationship was important, and Ray trusted him fairly implicitly: he respected Solas, and that respect was -as far as he knew at the time- returned.

He even said to Solas after the Temple of Mythal (paraphrased of course), that he thinks that if you fail, the best you can do is shake yourself off, and try again, which is... pretty much exactly what Solas is trying to do now, only on a larger scale.

So, Ray feels not only blindsided, used, and betrayed by one he thought of as his friend (with enough grief to temper the feelings, but not enough to grant Solas the benefit of a doubt), but most importantly, he feels responsible for the events of Trespasser and beyond. He feels like his callous words (the ones that he had regretted for personal reasons many times over) may have been something of a catalyst for this large-scale destruction, and he finds that absolutely unacceptable.

On top of the personal betrayal of finding out that his pain was originally caused by the one who quelled it, that the main reason he even is the Inquisitor, this larger than life figure squeezed into a chokehold by his very mantle that he -by that time- kind of hates, is Solas...? Feeling very much personally responsible for letting the "pure, free-range insanity" of one he once called his friend, raze Thedas in search of a utopia that may or may not have even ever existed, all on top of finding out that he had been holding a snake in his bosom, that he had been deceived, lied to, used and discarded when he ceased to be useful?

Oh, my boy is fucking furious. And betrayed, and bitter, and insulted, and devastated, and following that conversation at the Eluvian, he would go as far as to say that he straight-up regrets not having run Solas through right then and there.

Ray doesn't believe, for one second, that Solas' plan could have any positive outcome. He's just a human, no magic, no true connection to spirits or personal stake in the "glory" of ancient Arlathan, not one to get misty-eyed over the distant past- he's just a shemlen who lives and dies by the sword, and though a romantic about the past, he isn't more concerned with old glory, or ancient magics, than he is concerned with the little people, and those alive right now.

My Ray can't, philosophically can't, conceptualize what great "good" could ever be worth the devastation that Solas would be willing to cause to the present, and he, as he is right now in my head, can't think of Solas as anything more than a duplicitous madman who -if the first round of words fail- he'd kill without much hesitation at all. (He'd feel like shit about it afterwards of course, but it wouldn't even be the first time he had made the decision to execute a mage too dangerous to continue drawing breath- that "honor" belongs to Livius Erimond.)

And I quite like how this parallels Solas' own guilt for even erecting the Veil in the first place. I think it all dovetails really nicely into how Ray undoing what he thinks of as his mistake would in turn stop Solas from undoing his own, and vice versa, and as the way things are right now, the both of them physically cannot both end up "winning" this.

I really like how there is no win-win ending, no compromise: if it can happen the way I'd like it to, one of them will, most likely, end up needing to die in order for the other to succeed in fixing what they view as their biggest mistake, and though Ray is technically a very small part of what Solas is thinking about, likely neither of them cherish the thought of needing to become the other's undoing.

If the game doesn't allow for that kind of... "friendly affection tainted by a fundamental and irreconcilable difference and impossibility of coexistence" type of relationship (you know, that one, in every piece of media ever lol), I might pivot on that and alter/simplify it a little bit, but I don't really want to do either plain rage and hatred, or plain sorrow and affection.

Because Ray is not Varric.

The Trevelyan family motto is "Modest in Temper, Bold in Deed" for a reason, and Ray embodies this down to his very core.

As I am thinking about it right now, for eight years, that rage and betrayal and sorrow had been simmering, and concentrating, quiet and restrained, in Ray's belly- and if and when the time and opportunity comes, he will not hesitate to do what he feels must be done, even if it's staining his hands with the blood of a friend.

Solas must be stopped at any cost, and the time for rational thought and words has long since given way to the time for blades. That thought has had time to crystallize in his mind, and if I'm given the opportunity, no matter what my Rook might wind up feeling, that will be his utmost priority.

[maebird-melody]

I’ve written so many dragon age fics about Solas. Gonna start sharing the links to them from my writing sideblog to main.

[thestarprimal]

I’m finally reading Book One of The Dragon Prince novelization series. I haven’t made it far (still in the beginning), and I am liking what’s been added. I can tell this was stuff they wanted to put in the show, but couldn’t for time restrictions, I’m sure.

That being said, one of the oddest changes I’m seeing right now is that Soren is /seventeen/ at the start of the novel: "I'm only seventeen, but now I lay dying!" (pg 21)

but he’s eighteen in the show (this is confirmed when TDP twitter put out the ages, heights and birthdays back in 2018; see image below).

(source)

As can be also seen from the image above, Claudia is sixteen at the start of the show. Two years older than Callum. This also seems to remain the same in the novel: "Although she was less than a year older than Callum" (pg 19). Claudia and Callum's birthdays are one month apart, but her birthday comes before his. I just- AAAHHHHH

It feels like an arbitrary choice, and I’m wondering why they did that. There has to be reason for it. Soren’s birthday is in January, it already passed by the time the main series starts on both accounts of the show and novel.

I don't know, this is really just me going on late night ramblings. Maybe there wasn't any real particular reason for changing it and I'm just a crazy person for thinking Too Deeply about characters ages. I just have to wonder what the purpose is for changing Soren's age by one whole year. Maybe there is a reason for it, and I just have to keep reading (and I will). But it's just odd.

[arcxnumvitae]

“We have Xiao-Xiao and Hua Hua--”

“No one calls me that but you in an attempt to annoy me.” 

“--Yet I don’t have a loving nickname?”

“Xiao-Xiao, Minglian, and I call you Zhao-ge.”

“True. But our dear, sweet Lianlian might be making the switch to calling all of us ‘lao’ now.”

“Ohhh, that is possible. We have now crested the hill into our sunset days according to her.”

Please...she’s so sorry...